A lot of this stuff is basic schmoozing, things some people pick up intuitively although 5 is how Lefties have often gotten their way - wear down the other side until they give in just to shut you up.
I read this article a few days ago. Some of it comes from Dale Carnegie's books.
My father died about a year ago, and I mentioned at the funeral that as a child, I'd found my father's copy of "How to Win Friends..." on the bookshelf, with copious notes in the margins; and how this affected me, the realization that this very outgoing guy, the friendliest person you'd ever meet, who knew everyone and who (nearly) everyone liked, had to force himself to be that way, had to learn those skills.
And since that funeral, my son has started reading those books, and he'll tell me something he's found in them every other day.
"There's an old sea story about a ship's Captain who inspected his sailors, and afterward told the first mate that his men smelled bad. The Captain suggested perhaps it would help if the sailors would change underwear occasionally. The first mate responded, "Aye, aye sir, I'll see to it immediately!"
The first mate went straight to the sailors berth deck and announced, "The Captain thinks you guys smell bad and wants you to change your underwear."
He continued, "Pittman, you change with Jones, McCarthy, you change with Witkowski, and Brown, you change with Schultz."
THE MORAL OF THE STORY: Someone may come along and promise "Change", but don't count on things smelling any better."
I was just recommending the book Influence. Many of these examples are in it.
These are great tools for legitimate purposes. They are also tools of the trade for grifters and con men. They are good to know so you recognize these pitches and can evaluate them appropriately.
Mr Paddy, that was a very clever topic you posted. Oh, may I borrow a pencil, any old stubby pencil will do; thanks so much.
You arena very generous man. As long as you're loaning me a pencil, lets just use your car. We're not going far. Hey, I really appreciate that you're tired, my good friend. I'll just drive myself.
I'm going to the liquor store, can I bring you anything? You really deserve something, Paddy, we all know that.
How about a nice bottle of Four Roses? Sure, Paddy, I'd be happy to bring that. Say I'm a bit short today, may I borrow $250? Wait, that's asking too much and your such a generous man. Everyone knows that.
Just $50 would be so nice. Thanks! I'll be right back with your keys and whiskey. Would you mindnifmingrabbed lunch along the way? Thanks.
PaddyO, You are an MVP, Most Valuable Poster. Great article. I have used all of these techniques to varying degrees, as a PI but mostly intuitively. This was fascinating to see it explained.
ndspinnelli, you should buy a copy of Influence. It is more of the same goodness.
Maybe we can pitch in and buy a copy for some others too. http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Business-Essentials/dp/006124189X You can get a copy through Lem's amazon portal.
Many of those tricks and tips are basic skills taught to sales people. Mirroring, nodding, LISTENING and not directly contradicting, rephrasing.
Once you are aware of those techniques you are more than ever aware of it when people are trying to 'play' you or 'use' you. Instead of being manipulated on a subconscious or emotional level, you can be more dispassionate about whether you are acting rationally or being motivated by manipulation.
"The bottom line is that ABC News exploited “the only minority of the Zimmerman jury,” attempted to take advantage of someone not accustomed to being on television or otherwise expressing herself publicly, and then selectively edited the tape when they were unsuccessful in getting the story they wanted. Other outlets, including “the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, and dozens of other newspapers” were duped along with me." ~Dr. James Joyner
Oh that's what they all say. But Influence isn't marketed, except by The Cow, as a guide for how to spot frauds. It's sold as self-help. And it's no mistake "trick" is used by observers, in 2013, because that's what's now going on.
Influence is only used by two kinds of charlatans now:
1) People who find their own personalities deficient and - rather than doing the hard work of going deeper than that surface criticism - they've learned tricks to cover it all.
2) People who want your money.
We need to drop the NewAge and stop trying to reframe it, making excuses for it, or accepting it as something we'll endure - and nonsensically continue to fight over - into the future.
When I was 15, I worked a gas pumper in a service station. This was before self-service. My boss taught me a lot of things about human nature, not all of them good. However, one of them was that if you want people to like you, don't do stuff for them, get them to do stuff for you. They will always be glad to see you because you might pay them back. If you do stuff for them, they are not glad to see you because they know they owe you. Once, he pointed out a guy buying gas across the street at another station. He used to be a regular customer at our station but stopped coming after the boss loaned him money.
Crack did you read it? You might as well say the same for The Prince, 1984, etc..
There is nothing wrong for recognizing manipulation for what it is. Marketers and advertisers do it all the time. Some will use it to grift others with their scams. New Age religions are based on these ploys. But that book is also useful in recognizing the con and resisting it. It happens all the time and all levels.
Dale Carnegie, Think and Grow Rich, etc. are more the self help ilk. But they are worth reading just so you get what it is people are using it for. But these are just repackaged forms of carnival/huxter street knowledge.
I found Influence a thought provoking work that was not just of the "self help" class noted above. But be skeptical as hell of stuff like this and think for yourself.
And for all their faults (and I agree with Crack a lot of the new age crap is embedded with these carney principals), they sure as hell are not The Secret or Dianetics.
Check out David Weigel on the hard work I said was necessary:
"Sanford, Weiner, and Spitzer wanted back into politics. I wanted back into reporting. Once you quit, you realize that they beat you, and … well, wasn’t that supposed to be the worst thing that could ever happen? You used to have a secret, now you don’t. You’ve got to endure something painful, but is it a walk through a punishing desert or a meditation in a high-end red-rocks sauna? You get to choose."
The "tricks" are just good techniques; they aren't magic. I doubt if Congressman Weiner tried them all, doing so would overcome his other problems.
Many of these are things I learned before I entered the seminary, when I worked at fundraising. And some of these are techniques included in learning to be a good listener, and thus better at helping and counseling people.
Fr.Martin Fox: They are tools, like a rake, hammer, gun, etc. They are neither good or bad, they just are factors that have effect on most human personalities. It is foolish to just ignore them. How you use them is up to you.
I found this the most interesting one; essentially putting yourself in someone else's debt:
Scientists decided to test this theory and found that those who were asked by the researcher for a personal favor rated the researcher much more favorably than the other groups did. It may seem counter-intuitive, but the theory is pretty sound. If someone does a favor for you, they are likely to rationalize that you must have been worth doing the favor for, and decide that therefore they must like you.
I was going along thinking this is a good handbook for manipulative behavior, but then DBQ said:
"Many of those tricks and tips are basic skills taught to sales people. Mirroring, nodding, LISTENING and not directly contradicting, rephrasing.
Once you are aware of those techniques you are more than ever aware of it when people are trying to 'play' you or 'use' you. Instead of being manipulated on a subconscious or emotional level, you can be more dispassionate about whether you are acting rationally or being motivated by manipulation.
Awareness is a good thing."
Here's a very short clip from Blogging Heads that gives me pause as to the actual intention of some university studies, and who is paying for them.
43 comments:
A lot of this stuff is basic schmoozing, things some people pick up intuitively although 5 is how Lefties have often gotten their way - wear down the other side until they give in just to shut you up.
My dog nods when she wants something.
I've also heard - can you do me a solid?
The word "trick" is discouraging.
I do understand it, however.
teach a new trick. pet.
I read this article a few days ago. Some of it comes from Dale Carnegie's books.
My father died about a year ago, and I mentioned at the funeral that as a child, I'd found my father's copy of "How to Win Friends..." on the bookshelf, with copious notes in the margins; and how this affected me, the realization that this very outgoing guy, the friendliest person you'd ever meet, who knew everyone and who (nearly) everyone liked, had to force himself to be that way, had to learn those skills.
And since that funeral, my son has started reading those books, and he'll tell me something he's found in them every other day.
The word "trick" is discouraging.
"I'll tell you what brilliance in advertising is: 99 cents. Somebody thought of that."
-- Roger Sterling
"There's an old sea story about a ship's Captain who inspected his sailors, and afterward told the first mate that his men smelled bad. The Captain suggested perhaps it would help if the sailors would change underwear occasionally.
The first mate responded, "Aye, aye sir, I'll see to it immediately!"
The first mate went straight to the sailors berth deck and announced, "The Captain thinks you guys smell bad and wants you to change your underwear."
He continued, "Pittman, you change with Jones, McCarthy, you change with Witkowski, and Brown, you change with Schultz."
THE MORAL OF THE STORY:
Someone may come along and promise "Change", but don't count on things smelling any better."
Mitchell the Bat,
The word "trick" is discouraging.
That's how NewAgers operate.
Like Meade says of Ann, and Ann regularly says of herself, they're so much smarter than you.
They have to believe that,...
I was just recommending the book Influence. Many of these examples are in it.
These are great tools for legitimate purposes. They are also tools of the trade for grifters and con men. They are good to know so you recognize these pitches and can evaluate them appropriately.
Nice opening Paddy O with asking for a favor. You are a smart guy!
Thanks, ELB!
Though, I'm feeling tired these days...
Yes, tricky.
suffering from exhaustion.. I'm off the hills.
(to the)
Mr Paddy, that was a very clever topic you posted. Oh, may I borrow a pencil, any old stubby pencil will do; thanks so much.
You arena very generous man. As long as you're loaning me a pencil, lets just use your car. We're not going far. Hey, I really appreciate that you're tired, my good friend. I'll just drive myself.
I'm going to the liquor store, can I bring you anything? You really deserve something, Paddy, we all know that.
How about a nice bottle of Four Roses? Sure, Paddy, I'd be happy to bring that. Say I'm a bit short today, may I borrow $250? Wait, that's asking too much and your such a generous man. Everyone knows that.
Just $50 would be so nice. Thanks! I'll be right back with your keys and whiskey. Would you mindnifmingrabbed lunch along the way? Thanks.
PaddyO, You are an MVP, Most Valuable Poster. Great article. I have used all of these techniques to varying degrees, as a PI but mostly intuitively. This was fascinating to see it explained.
ndspinnelli, you should buy a copy of Influence. It is more of the same goodness.
Maybe we can pitch in and buy a copy for some others too. http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Business-Essentials/dp/006124189X You can get a copy through Lem's amazon portal.
Here is the Amazon link.
Agreed about MVP, great post.
Downloaded it. Thanks for the recommendation.
The dog, the cat and the sit-stay.
Many of those tricks and tips are basic skills taught to sales people. Mirroring, nodding, LISTENING and not directly contradicting, rephrasing.
Once you are aware of those techniques you are more than ever aware of it when people are trying to 'play' you or 'use' you. Instead of being manipulated on a subconscious or emotional level, you can be more dispassionate about whether you are acting rationally or being motivated by manipulation.
Awareness is a good thing.
Thurber "Let Your Mind Alone" is recommended.
Here's another common method:
"The bottom line is that ABC News exploited “the only minority of the Zimmerman jury,” attempted to take advantage of someone not accustomed to being on television or otherwise expressing herself publicly, and then selectively edited the tape when they were unsuccessful in getting the story they wanted. Other outlets, including “the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, and dozens of other newspapers” were duped along with me."
~Dr. James Joyner
Awareness is a good thing.
Oh that's what they all say. But Influence isn't marketed, except by The Cow, as a guide for how to spot frauds. It's sold as self-help. And it's no mistake "trick" is used by observers, in 2013, because that's what's now going on.
Influence is only used by two kinds of charlatans now:
1) People who find their own personalities deficient and - rather than doing the hard work of going deeper than that surface criticism - they've learned tricks to cover it all.
2) People who want your money.
We need to drop the NewAge and stop trying to reframe it, making excuses for it, or accepting it as something we'll endure - and nonsensically continue to fight over - into the future.
It's fraud on every level,...
When I was 15, I worked a gas pumper in a service station. This was before self-service. My boss taught me a lot of things about human nature, not all of them good. However, one of them was that if you want people to like you, don't do stuff for them, get them to do stuff for you. They will always be glad to see you because you might pay them back. If you do stuff for them, they are not glad to see you because they know they owe you. Once, he pointed out a guy buying gas across the street at another station. He used to be a regular customer at our station but stopped coming after the boss loaned him money.
Crack did you read it? You might as well say the same for The Prince, 1984, etc..
There is nothing wrong for recognizing manipulation for what it is. Marketers and advertisers do it all the time. Some will use it to grift others with their scams. New Age religions are based on these ploys. But that book is also useful in recognizing the con and resisting it. It happens all the time and all levels.
Dale Carnegie, Think and Grow Rich, etc. are more the self help ilk. But they are worth reading just so you get what it is people are using it for. But these are just repackaged forms of carnival/huxter street knowledge.
I found Influence a thought provoking work that was not just of the "self help" class noted above. But be skeptical as hell of stuff like this and think for yourself.
And for all their faults (and I agree with Crack a lot of the new age crap is embedded with these carney principals), they sure as hell are not The Secret or Dianetics.
ken in sc is spot on too.
Crack: Does this remind you of anyone?
Evi L. Bloggerlady,
Crack did you read it?
Yes, and I own it, along with The Secret and everything else I can get my hands on. Understand something, Evi:
I'm not knocking Dale or Influence, but the culture that's come up around them. I don't blame Dale or Influence for that either. I blame NewAge.
If anything, I think Influence should come with added notes on how it's been misused.
Hey Crack: Karma!
Funny how these types attract each other!
And I agree a follow up on Influence would be a good thing.
Evi, Thanks, I'll read it.
Evi,
Yeah, I recognize the old lady with "Dickie" and the dog - classic.
And yeah, Karma's a mother. I can even identify with Drew.
Oh well, "everything happens for a reason"...
Hey Evi,
Check out David Weigel on the hard work I said was necessary:
"Sanford, Weiner, and Spitzer wanted back into politics. I wanted back into reporting. Once you quit, you realize that they beat you, and … well, wasn’t that supposed to be the worst thing that could ever happen? You used to have a secret, now you don’t. You’ve got to endure something painful, but is it a walk through a punishing desert or a meditation in a high-end red-rocks sauna? You get to choose."
And NewAgers make the same choice, every time,...
You’ve got to endure something painful, but is it a walk through a punishing desert or a meditation in a high-end red-rocks sauna? You get to choose."
I got the sauna reference the first time!
The "tricks" are just good techniques; they aren't magic. I doubt if Congressman Weiner tried them all, doing so would overcome his other problems.
Many of these are things I learned before I entered the seminary, when I worked at fundraising. And some of these are techniques included in learning to be a good listener, and thus better at helping and counseling people.
Fr.Martin Fox: They are tools, like a rake, hammer, gun, etc. They are neither good or bad, they just are factors that have effect on most human personalities. It is foolish to just ignore them. How you use them is up to you.
I found this the most interesting one; essentially putting yourself in someone else's debt:
Scientists decided to test this theory and found that those who were asked by the researcher for a personal favor rated the researcher much more favorably than the other groups did. It may seem counter-intuitive, but the theory is pretty sound. If someone does a favor for you, they are likely to rationalize that you must have been worth doing the favor for, and decide that therefore they must like you.
I was going along thinking this is a good handbook for manipulative behavior, but then DBQ said:
"Many of those tricks and tips are basic skills taught to sales people. Mirroring, nodding, LISTENING and not directly contradicting, rephrasing.
Once you are aware of those techniques you are more than ever aware of it when people are trying to 'play' you or 'use' you. Instead of being manipulated on a subconscious or emotional level, you can be more dispassionate about whether you are acting rationally or being motivated by manipulation.
Awareness is a good thing."
Here's a very short clip from Blogging Heads that gives me pause as to the actual intention of some university studies, and who is paying for them.
Then again, there are some people you never want to be in debt to...
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